Tuesday, July 13, 2004

 
One of the commenters on the most recent post wrote: "what if you just want the summer job to WORK (earn as much of your pay as you are capable of) and LEARN about the firm and the practice of law, and are not there to be wowed and dazzled and entertained? Why is this so much like mandatory kiddy camp instead of a workplace with training where you can get familiar with the work and they can evaluate your strengths, abilities & the quality of your work?"

I think the answer is pretty straightforward: You're a liar. That's something we hear in interviews all the time. Students saying they don't care about the events and all they want to do is work and learn about the firm. And then they get here and they start whining about expensive lunches and their friends at other firms getting to spend $20 more on lunch than we allow. On the first day they all want to do work, everyone's excited, it's new, it's different, let's impress the partners. By halfway through getting any of the summers to do any work is like pulling teeth. You're all the same. You're here to take advantage of us. We give you one nice lunch, you want two. You get mad when we say work takes precedence over lunch and you try to get out of meetings early. You get upset when we ask you to stay late. We give you an inch -- and you want the whole rope. And that's the problem. We do give you an inch -- we take the first step down the slippery slope -- by making the summer fun, by having events, by keeping you interested. But you all take, take, take. You're not here to learn and work, you're here to take whatever you can get from us. And that doesn't make you a terrible person, it just makes you a typical person. Because we indulge it. Because you know you're getting an offer. Because you know it won't matter in the end. And if we changed it, no one would come here. We'd lose out to the other firms whose programs would be more like summer camp, and would let you work less. Who wants to work more? Not me. Not you. Not anyone sane. We let you go home at 5, you're all going to leave at 5. Or 4. Or noon. And good for you. But don't lie to me and say that's not what you want. Wait till you get here. It's what you want. It's what everyone wants. Stupid law students who never had a real job before in their lives. Stupid us for letting them get away with anything. Stupid clients who pay us. Stupid paralegals... for being paralegals... what a stupid job they have. Worthless.

Comments:
Believe it or not, some people do want to learn but partners usually will not take the time to teach what they actually want; they only take time to complain and bitch and call everyone beneath them stupid. If paralegals are so worthless, why have them? Let your secretary pick up the work (oh, I forgot, they are stupid too). How firms continue to operate with all the stupid people they have working for them is beyond me.
 
You're damn right it should be summer camp! Look, I went to one of the top five law schools in the country--you better make it worth my while to work for your big firm rather than to do some good (i.e. become a prosecutor or public defender).

The summer is the big firm's one chance to wow me with wealth, or I'm going into the public service. It's always kids from crappy law schools (i.e. Georgetown, Duke, Florida) who want to talk about "really working and learning." As if! You guys would push your mothers in traffic to get a big firm job--and only because it pays so much! Why do so few kids from the second-rate school make partner if you are all so interested in "learning and working"?
 
It doesn't help that large firms practically insist on being lied to. Almost inevitably, the large firm interviewers will ask "Why do you want to be here?" The anticipated, "correct" answer is something that strokes their ego, that they're somehow different from the other six firms that the interviewee has offers from. And, of course, the real answer is "because I think I can more readily squeeze gobs and gobs of cash out of your firm." All large firm partners were law students at one time, and must have known this at one time. Did they forget this, somehow? Otherwise. why do they still ask the question?
 
Second poster: "I'm only interested in your money if you pander to me." Riiiiight....
 
AL, I appreciate your perspective. Your blog may actually be a public service for those of us looking for a career/job match. The more I read, the less inclined I am to want any part of the world you live in. Law school seems so insular and out of sync with the real world -- instead of looking forward to getting back into that world on a professional level after my 3 years are up, I realize now thatI need to choose very carefully what kind of law environment I put myself in. The world of BIGLAW sounds just as other-worldly and bizarre as law school. I can tolerate anything for 3 years, but I don't want to sign up for a lifetime of what you describe. All workplaces and professions have their politics, games and idiocyncracies, but I'm just amazed that there is such a network of bright people paying and being paid so much money that think the way your firm/associates/partners/applicants seem to think. Last year a hiring partner from a mid to large size firm in Dallas told me that for the most part they only hired attorneys making a lateral move. Now I understand why.
 
To whoever started their post with "Second Poster". You misstate my argument, idiot.

My argument is that if law firms did not give top students a summer camp experience and instead made them work, the top students would see how boring being an associate is and they would after graduation opt for more interesting jobs.

Most top schools forgive your debt if you work in the public interest. But I forgive your mistake. I know how money-hungry you Catholic J.D. students are.
 
Florida! Is there a law school in Florida? Why are they any more of a state than Mexico?
 
"If I'm self-righteous enough about my (unnamed, probably shitty) law school and other people making lots of money, maybe people will think I don't care that I'm not."

Hey, you're a "top five law school" -- go ask someone about the difference between you making an "argument" and anyone else believing it. "Idiot."
 
Actually, Dude, I'm a Columbia Law grad who spent two years at Cravath before seeing the light. Now I'm an Assistant District Attorney, making way less but doing way more.

I've been in the belly of the beast; I know the score. Now where did you say you went again? Fordham? Is that accredited? Do you get taught by priests?
 
Given the judgment I've seen you exercise, I'm betting "the light" came in the form of a pink slip or a firm suggestion to the same effect.

And, wow, I'm so blinded by your credentials, I didn't notice that you're now working with lots of people from those law schools at the Manhattan DA's office, or that you think doing possession and solicitation cases counts as "public interest" work. You're cl
 
More and more I think these posts are either made up or greatly exaggerated. AL is so much a stereotypical rich partner at a biglaw firm with no deviation from that image that it's hard to believe it's real. I am a summer associate and while I appreciate the activities planned for us, sometimes they bite into time I need and/or want to be working so that I can produce a quality product that will create a favorable impression.
 
I'm among those 'liars', AL. I'm the one who has no interest in bullshitting around, though it may seem that way for the fact that I'm posting to a blog, but it's lunchtime, and I'll do as I damn please.

The problem is, students like myself are clawing at your job, ready to outwork, outperform, and compete on a level you've yet to taste. In simpe: I'm going to take your job, and force you into early retirement...which is probably something you should look into, see that you've a kid.
 
What do you mean that you're 'clawing at his job' ? That you want or plan to move into such a position, that you are smaller-firm opposition counsel, or a hard-working student planning to take on everyone? Sorry, as one of the earlier 'non-liars' I just didn't understand your stance.
 
Summer camp is not enough. You need to do more for those summer associates given the hell you put them through once they become real associates after law school. You should be grateful that you only have to do so little.
 
I think it's hilarious that you're so convinced that GU is such a crappy school. They put out a huge class that goes to most of the top law firms, and most firms would say that they're top 10. You're a hack.
I'm a hack for writing this.
Fine. You win. GU sucks.
Love, Idiot.
 
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Vacations
by: ways for teen to make money

While Paris, England, or Germany offers excitement,
they also cost money to visit. Unfortunately, people
on a regular basis forget about the United States and
even the very state in which they live. One man had
lived in Arizona his entire life. At age 50, when asked
by a friend what the Grand Canyon was like, he was unable
to answer because he had never been there. The next time
you get ready to plan your family vacation, look around
where you live and consider an exciting road trip that
will not only be educating but cost effective. A vacation
does not have to be expensive to be fun and memorable.

ways for teen to make money
 
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