Anonymous Lawyer

I'm suprised you would actually believe that the e-mails couldn't be recovered. Granted, you're not a litigator, but anyone rudimentarily familiar with electronic discovery would know that to *really* delete things so that they can't be recovered is a huge undertaking, involving re-writing over data, many, many times. Now, from the way you speak of your staff, I'm seriously doubtful that your IT department is that on it. Oh, and by the way, everytime one of those e-mails that was 'deleted forever' goes out over a Blackberry, the service provider has a copy of the message on *their* server. And on their backup tapes. In fact, your e-mails are probably on *your* server's backup tapes, unless your IT department is dilligent enough to erase those as well. But again, I bet they aren't.

Not that it matters, most of your e-mails are probably protected as work product. However, believing they are actually deleted beyond the point of recovery is a false sense of security.
 

to the poster above talking about securities filings. it would be helpful if you knew what you are talking about before you talk about it. otherwise, you tend to look not only pompous, but also dumb. hope this helps.
 

I agree with the first poster. And I don't know about Blackberry emails, but Cis sounds right.

Also, watch out if you're posting to this weblog from work. It's super easy for your firm to track, well, if they care about doing that in the first place. Which, granted, most places don't.
 

To the poster at 9.57: wtf are you talking about? I believe that you are the one looking decidedly dumb, and pompous.
 

AL, poster 1 is correct. No e-mail is ever gone, litigators will get and read them all! In fact, when litigation is "threatened," your firm, like every other company/employer, has a duty to preserve e-mail and electronic communications without regard to the "policy."
 

Big DUH! Of course emails can be recovered. I'm astonished that a LAWYER of all people is not aware of the vulnerability of electronic communications. Unlike the poster from the other day who was warned to avoid email whenever possible, we use email for a large part of our daily correspondences, but we are warned not to put anything in writing if it is anything we wouldn't want to have shared. Every Glamour reader knows that, for heavensake. For that matter, don't put anything in email that you don't want to be re-read, scrutinized and possibly misinterpreted. Emails can be recreated, even if they are deleted from your desktop. It's even more likely that you can recreate emails when you are part of a network. A big firm wants to be able to recreate things that might be helpful in the future, even if it means that they can also recreate stuff they'd rather hide. That's why we are warned to be careful with email. And even if AL is right that the emails are "gone", it's pretty naive to put anything in email that could come back to haunt you. Afterall, at the very least, how do you know that the person on the other end of the email isn't saving a copy to cover his ass or to use against you if the need arises?
 

http://msn.careerbuilder.com/Custom/MSN/CareerAdvice/135.htm?siteid=CBMSN4168&sc_extcmp=JS_wi07_feb04_advice


http://msn.careerbuilder.com/Custom/MSN/CareerAdvice/159.htm?siteid=CBMSN4165&sc_extcmp=JS_wi04_feb04_advice
 

> to *really* delete things so
> that they can't be recovered
> is a huge undertaking, involving
> re-writing over data, many, many times

ummmm...do you know anything about technology? it's not like painting a wall -- you're not going to need several coats here. once data has been "written over" it's gone. no recovery possible. granted, "deleting" something through your os often doesn't get rid of it on the hard drive. at least not right away. it might get rid of the pointer (and the actual data gets flagged for deletion). but if you actually do write over data, it's gone.

also, isps do not record emails. it may be logged, but the text is not recorded. that's just retarded.
 

The assumption is that the email has been deleted. In actuality, if your email is stored on the system, it may be deleted after a certain number of days, but if you are in a high-risk business (lawyer, computer consulting, government) you'd probably want a record of everything. I'm a computer consultant, which means I am not an employee of the company I do the work for. They could just walk up to my desk and say "get the hell out" and there would be nothing I could do about it. I cover myself at all costs, which includes keeping copies of my email.

If you use Microsoft Outlook, you have the ability to have the email delivered to a local file (as opposed to keeping your mail on the server). You can then back this file up (copy it to a disk and take it home periodically). Your Outlook screen will not look much different than other people's screens. The only way you might be able to tell if someone is doing this is have the email administrator look at the person's system account. If they have no email stored on the server, they are having it delivered to a local file.

I even save these email files for years. I have one firm that I did work for 6 years ago. I recently came back for another stint and I brought my email file back...for reference.
 

The assumption is that the email has been deleted. In actuality, if your email is stored on the system, it may be deleted after a certain number of days, but if you are in a high-risk business (lawyer, computer consulting, government) you'd probably want a record of everything. I'm a computer consultant, which means I am not an employee of the company I do the work for. They could just walk up to my desk and say "get the hell out" and there would be nothing I could do about it. I cover myself at all costs, which includes keeping copies of my email.

If you use Microsoft Outlook, you have the ability to have the email delivered to a local file (as opposed to keeping your mail on the server). You can then back this file up (copy it to a disk and take it home periodically). Your Outlook screen will not look much different than other people's screens. The only way you might be able to tell if someone is doing this is have the email administrator look at the person's system account. If they have no email stored on the server, they are having it delivered to a local file.

I even save these email files for years. I have one firm that I did work for 6 years ago. I recently came back for another stint and I brought my email file back...for reference.
 

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
 

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
 

wow, some massive misconceptions about how computers work here. YES, data can be found quite easily after its been deleted once. The person above who mentioned the DoD is spot on correct. Email is even worse though. There is nothing, NOTHING that says the other nodes in the sending path aren't keeping copies. Or your own mail system could be. Your sysadmin staff could be keeping copies for his/her/their own use. You would never ever know either, until they were introduced.